Chatting with Bob Fingerman, some years after meeting at Baltimore Comic Con

 by Mike Rhode

Sometime before COVID*, I was going to Baltimore Comic Con and a friend in Europe asked me to pick up some original art by Bob Fingerman** for him. I ended up buying more for myself than my buddy, as this was when Minimum Wage had just been collected, and I always enjoyed those scruffy urban not-quite-DINKS (you can see the six of mine scattered throughout this interview). Bob recently reached out to offer That’s Some Business You’re In and Printopia his two current books for review,*** and I asked him for an interview with my standard questions. (updated 2x 6/26/2025 to revise Recess Pieces information)

 

What type of comic work or cartooning do you do?

Well, I've done a lot. I've been at this for so long that I've managed to cram a lot of different genres and a lot of different approaches into one career. And I've been fortunate in that even in the times that I've played with other people's characters I've managed to do it in a way that felt consistent With my approach. But generally speaking, I guess I do what you would call Alternative Comics? Labels, what are you going to do? But yeah, mostly creator owned, very character driven stuff. Often with very talkative characters because I really love writing dialogue.

How do you do it? Traditional pen and ink, computer or a combination?

For quite a while it's been sort of a combination, but I do all of the drawing itself traditionally. Sometimes I ink, but generally I favor doing the finished art in hard colored pencil, almost always violet instead of black. I've been trying to figure out why? And I'm sure some psychologist would have a reason why I've locked into the color violet as my go-to, but yeah, that. And then I use the computer for color, so I digitally paint in conjunction with the line art. 

When (within a decade is fine) and where were you born?

They keep moving the goal post or criteria or whatever, but for the longest while I certainly identified as Gen X. And it seemed to work. And I'm from Queens, New York. 

And I liked Queens a whole lot better when it was just known as the boring borough as opposed to the borough that spawned Satan.

Where are you living now? What neighborhood or area do you live in?

I live in Los Angeles, after a lifetime in New York that had kind of run its course.

What is your training and/or education in cartooning?

The truth is that even though I went to art school I am largely and primarily self-taught.

Which is not to say I didn't learn some important lessons from Harvey Kurtzman when I was attending SVA. But the irony is all the best lessons I learned from him were extracurricular, because he hired me to work on some stories for a book he was editing (NUTS!) when I was a student in his class, and as an editor he really taught me a lot of very useful things. I also learned from other comics artists when I began to meet them, when I was young. I remember Bill Wray may have been the first to introduce the concept of "establishing panel" into my visual vocabulary of storytelling. I mean, that was gold. But I think I've just learned a lot from doing it for as long as I have and from looking at really good work over the years and absorbing bits and bobs.

Who are your influences?

Oof, how much time do you have? Jules Feiffer, Gahan Wilson, Herge, Robert Crumb (and many of the underground comic artists), the “usual gang of idiots” in the classic years of MAD, most especially Jack Davis and Wally Wood. But also Don Martin, Sergio Aragones. And when Heavy Metal magazine debuted it tore the lid off my head and poured it in some of the most astonishing comics I've ever seen to this day; so Richard Corben, Moebius, Caza, Bilal, Tardi, Frank Margerin, Serge Clerc. Akira Toriyama – – his Doctor Slump definitely crept into my brain. Tove Jansson. Vaughn Bodē. Walt Kelly. The incredible Charles Rodrigues, of National Lampoon fame. I know there are more, but I guess that's enough for the time being. Oh, Charles Burns? Gary Panter! Mike Mignola!

If you could, what in your career would you do-over or change? Or rather, how are you hoping your career will develop?

Oh my God, regrets? That might take longer than the influences. I'm kind of kidding. But of course, along the road I think I've made some poor choices. I think I used to grab the low hanging fruit too much, so I did some work that I'm not all that proud of in the earlier part of my career. I mean, I guess it's all part of the journey, so regret really isn't particularly healthy or helpful. Better to learn from your mistakes than regret them. And it's not like I did anything that hurt anyone. And as for my career developing, even though I've been doing this professionally for four decades I hope there's always forward momentum and growth. I think my work is a lot better now than it used to be, and I still keep learning new things, so hopefully by the time my hand begins to atrophy I'll have really achieved some of how I picture stuff in my head to the letter. I still enjoy what I do. The business, maybe not as much, but the actual job of creating? Love it! And I'm very grateful for that!

 

What work are you best-known for?

The comic book series Minimum Wage. That certainly the one I did the most of, the page-count probably totaling about 600? Compared to some people's output that's a blip, but for me to do 22 issues of a comic, plus a standalone introductory GN? The original run ran in the mid to late '90s from Fantagraphics, then it kind of went away and gestated for 15 years before being reborn courtesy of Image Comics. I'm hoping in the next year or two to collect all of it in one definitive edition.

What work are you most proud of?

I'm very proud of Minimum Wage, but I'm also proud of the two novels I got published (Bottomfeeder and Pariah), being in Heavy Metal magazine and MAD; the fact that I've managed to do work that had personal significance for as long as I have. And I'm very very proud of my latest graphic novel, Printopia! Might be my favorite book I've ever done.

What's Printopia about?  Where can people find it?

Printopia is set at a printshop in Manhattan. Within the framing device of the girl who works there—a recurring and evolving character of mine I’ve featured before, Darla Vogel—are vignettes about the lives of the eccentric and varied customers that employ Printopia’s services. A couple of dudes that put out a fantasy-oriented zine; a writer of cozy mysteries, who has a dirty secret; a naïve woman that creates children’s books featuring dioramas using dead animals to illustrate her stories and many more. It’s also, alas, very relevant, as it goes into stuff happening in the real world, now, even though it’s set in 2018. It’s funny, poignant and delves into the creative mind, pitfalls and all. It’s from Cosmic Lion Productions, and I’d encourage folks to either put in an order at their local comic shop, or order directly from Cosmic Lion. ****

 

   

pages from Printopia

  

 

Let's switch to your autobiography, That’s Some Business You’re In. Why did you decide to write a memoir? 

I wanted to mark the milestones of turning 60 and hitting my fortieth anniversary as a professional, so it seemed like a natural. But it’s more a career memoir than personal one, though there is intermingling. But it’s really a retrospective, to date. An expanded version will be coming out in trade paperback next year.

How did you come to be published by Zoop? They're crowdfunded, as opposed to being a traditional publisher, correct?

Yeah, they’re more a packager than publisher, but kind of function as a hybrid of both. I learned of them via a couple of creators I know that did projects via their platform, and I liked how they operate. After some good conversations with their principals, Eric and Jordan, doing That’s Some Business You’re In via Zoop seemed like a great idea.

It looks as thought the campaign was a success, raising 4x the initial request. Does that money come to you, stay with the publisher, or be split between you?

There’s a split, after costs, favoring the creator. Very equitable. 

Does Zoop handle all the fulfillment for this book? 

Yes, which is why I wanted to go with them as opposed to Kickstarter. I have no desire to do order fulfillment. It’s just not a way I want to spend my time. I’d rather focus on the creative aspect.

What would you like to do or work on in the future?

There’s a third book on the horizon: a vastly reworked edition of Recess Pieces called Recess Pieces Reanimated (due October 15, 2025).  It’s not simply a repackaged reissue. In my patented OCD style, I have reworked, revised, rewritten, redrawn and “reanimated” this graphic novel. 26 all-new pages, a new finale, and about 40 pages reworked extensively. It looks and reads soooo much better! Very excited for this to be out there. Planning on developing it as a tabletop RPG, too!

I would love to do a sequel to Printopia, but that remains to be seen. I also am planning to do something completely different, which would be a kids’ graphic novel. I think it would be fun to do something upbeat, for a change of pace. Especially with the world being what it is, focusing on something positive would be nice. But also, I wrote this story years ago and it's just lived in my head, so I think it's time to finally put it out in the world as a comic for kids. 

What do you do when you're in a rut or have writer's block?

That doesn’t happen all that often, but when it does the best thing for me, unless I’m on deadline, is to just walk away from whatever for a while. Let my brain reset itself. 

What do you think will be the future of your field?

No idea. I think it’s possible, even probable, that people will be reading comics for the rest of my lifetime, But in fewer numbers. I think people like the format. There are enough younger folks doing them that makes me think there is a future for the medium.

What cons do you attend?

I really don’t, much. Not anymore. The pandemic really shook me, and I already was iffy on cons, at the best of times. I kind of want to be active in them. I know it would help keep my name and work out there.

Any comments about attending them? We met at the Baltimore Comic Con years ago, and you mentioned enjoying that - why?

That was a rare con that I enjoyed. It felt… manageable. Not too big, but big enough to feel substantial. It attracted a good crowd that was actually there because they liked comics.

What comic books do you read regularly or recommend?

None, really. I generally “wait for trade,” like many consumers of comics. There are creators that when they have new work out, I must get it immediately, but their work is usually more in the OGN category. I love Noah Van Sciver’s work. He serialized Maple Terrace, and I got those as they were released, then bought it again in book form.

Do you have a local store?

Yeah, Secret Headquarters, in Atwater. I also get graphic novels and the like at Skylight Books’ annex. And Golden Apple.

What's your favorite thing about visiting DC?

Geez, it’s been a long time. Maybe twenty years? Maybe more? I loved the National Portrait Gallery. I’m trying to remember if that’s where I attended a great show of caricature art. Yeah, it was. Oh man, that was back in 1998. Okay, so yeah. It’s been a while. But it’s a very nice city, especially Georgetown.

Least favorite?

These days? Take a guess.

Do you have a website or blog?

Bobfingerman.com and my Instagram, bobfingerman. I also have a public Facebook page called Bob Fingerman – cartoonist & Author.

 How has the COVID-19 outbreak affected you, personally and professionally?

It was pretty bleak for a while, there. Those two plus years of lockdown? Spraying groceries with alcohol when you got them home? It felt very almost hopeless. Like, “Is this how it’s going to be forever, now?” On the other hand, I got a lot done, creatively. Being a prisoner in my own home wasn’t too bad, really. And one advantage of having always worked at home in a solitary way kind of prepped me for lockdown. But I’m glad life feels pretty normal, again. Though I still get anxious around crowds, indoors. So, another impediment re attending cons. I was actually going to finally return to San Diego last year, but then I got Covid! It’s still out there. What a note to end on! Stay healthy, folks!

*Ok, it was 2013, according to my emails, so this interview is long overdue. 

**Someone who can edit Wikipedia should update Bob's entry, based on this interview if nothing else.  

***Still available if you're interested in writing about them for IJOCA. I've bought my own copies as I'm way behind on reviews.

****I tried to order Printopia from my local comics store - they can't get it because Diamond was stocking it, and nobody's getting anything from Diamond now. I then tried the publisher who was about to charge $20 shipping on a $25 book. So I bought it from Amazon for cover price, but against my usual instincts to support LCSs or indy publishers. YMMV.

Fink and Leopold & Brink interview, long after a chance meeting at Baltimore Comic Con

by Mike Rhode

I encountered Christopher Fink (aka CA Fink, Christopher Alan Fink, who prefers to go by Fink in person), last fall at Baltimore Comic Con, in front of Eddie Campbell's table. He was talking to Campbell about his upcoming comic, and as he noted when writing back to me, "I’m the dude with a wacky contraption on his head, a treatment for brain cancer." I've written on cancer and graphic medicine in the past so I asked him about an interview. He agreed, with the caveat, "I should let you know my current work isn’t ABOUT cancer at all and is only in there (at the very end) as a lazy reader’s rationale for the events of the plot, namely me believing I’m a character in my own comic series, Leopold & Brink." According to copies for sale on the Internet, he began self-publishing the series in 1997, while an Instagram post says he began working on it in 1987. 

We've both been dilatory with finishing this interview for months, so I'm posting the second revision from April. I also assumed he was from Baltimore, so some of the questions reflect that mistake.

What type of comic work or cartooning do you do?

I started cartooning as an unconventional approach to a Philosophy dissertation in graphic novel form.  Though I’ve done a few short pieces since then, I’ve really only focused on the world I built for that project in the mid-‘90s. Nineteen 90s that is.

Your current graphic memoir is about suffering from brain cancer... can you tell us more about it?

Oh I wish it was simply about that ! It’s not a cancer book at all. 

My brain cancer does show up at the end of the Leopold and Brink-embedded autobio, and though it’s an honest presentation of my early experience with it, it mainly serves as a possible explanation for some outlandish plot points in the rest of the book.

How do you do it? Traditional pen and ink, computer or a combination?

This is Leopold and Brink # 5 I’m currently finishing and due to my health, I picked the most expedient media I could think of.: thick digital gouache on an iPad.

LaB #1-3 are all done with brush on Bristol. Tombo for the first. WN7 for 2 and 3.

LaB #4 is all text, a proper novel, and was written out on sketch pads then typed on various desktops.

This Instagram post from May says Fantagraphics will be publishing issue #5 this fall.

When (within a decade is fine) and where were you born?

Born at 12:06am Mercy Hospital, Coconut Grove/Miami, Florida March 12, 1970.

What neighborhood or area do you live in?

Fox Hills / Culver City, CALIFORNIA

What is your training and/or education in cartooning?

Copying John Byrne in the early 80s. Giving up after seeing Bill Sienkiewicz’s work in Moon Knight. No training at at all. Looked at a lot of art books as a kid.

Who are your influences?

After Byrne, it was all writers - Mainly the big Brits, Moore and Morrison. Swamp Thing and Animal Man convinced me to not give up on the medium as a possible voice for my interests.

As I went deeper, Kurtzman was big. Then I found all the masters, an exhaustive list. Mazzucchelli’s Rubber Blanket was a oooooh THAT’s how you do it. 

Oh, Heavy Metal was a favorite.

Influences as far as my own work, I’d have to go full pretentious and discuss other mediums. I’ve never been able to draw as well as I feel I can write or build worlds so I’m drawn to idealistic literature, fine art, and tv shows like Star Trek.

If you could, what in your career would you do-over or change? 

Had I let someone else publish LaB back in the mid-90s, I’m pretty sure I could now say I had a career as a cartoonist.

What work are you best-known for?

I’m not known at all unless this is being read after the LaB movies are out 🤪

What work are you most proud of?

No question - Leopold and Brink. My life’s work and the one thing I’m truly proud of.

What do you do when you're in a rut or have writer's block?

My ruts are always some form of procrastination. I’m blessed with flow when it comes to creating. I am not blessed with discipline.

What do you think will be the future of your field? 

Like most entertainment fields, it’s inevitable that AI will do all the production and future artists will more or less be mixmasters, curators, or victor frankensteins. I’m not opposed.

Until then - and I’m encouraged by the shows I’ve attended recently (2024) I think small press will continue to flourish and that community will grow. Maybe a kind of a weekly Farmer’s Market for comics in cities and towns everywhere?

What local cons do you attend? The Small Press Expo, Awesome Con, or others? Any comments about attending them?

I’ve only recently been back at shows, mainly to promote LaB 5. One of those was SPX, which was fantastic. I went to the very first one of those!! And a couple other early ones in the 90s. APE in SF was similarly wonderful. I’ll be at CALA Dec 2024 for the first time and can’t wait!

I think shows are always lovely and full of my kind of madness.

What comic books do you read regularly or recommend? Do you have a local store?

Oh no! I haven’t read a comic in months and before that, years. Not good. I had a strange program of gathering retirement reading for some dude I called Future Fink. Uh, do not recommend.

I DO recommend my local stores tho! Pulp Fiction on Sepulveda, Comic Bug, Stuart Ng, and of course, Secret Headquarters.

What's your favorite thing about Baltimore?

Only spent a few days there. I love that there’s an alcove to appreciate local legend, Thurgood Marshall, at the airport. 

For a graphic novelist, Fink's online presence is scarce but he's on YouTube and Instagram.

TCAF answers! from Alex Lupp

 by Mike Rhode

A few local cartoonists were selected to attend TCAF in Canada this year - it's a curated show, and not a lottery like SPX is. I think it has invited guests and people who apply to exhibit. I reached out to ask about their experiences. Alex's profile interview is here and when I saw him recently at Fantom Comics, he said new issues of Sand are coming.

How did you get selected for this show? Did you have to apply?

I did have to apply and was selected. TCAF is a curated show, and from what I can tell a lot of thought goes into that decision making process. I also applied last year, and was not selected, but that rejection came with an email explaining their decision. This is relatively rare in my experience. They specifically took the pains to explain that they reviewed my work and would consider me a stronger applicant this year, and encouraged me to apply again. These application processes can often be fairly opaque, so that small touch truly went a long way. 

Was this your first time?

Yes and no. I've been to TCAF many times starting in 2015, but all prior times it was either as a table helper, with maybe one comic on the table, or just attending for fun. Even though this was my fifth TCAF, it was the first where I applied by myself and was accepted. 

 

 Why do you go to TCAF so often? It's got to be a fairly expensive trip from the DC-area....

 

 Initially it was because my partner at the time was accepted to table, and I tagged along to help out & cover the event for my blog at the time (now defunct for years). That fist time I just fell in love with the show & Toronto, so tagged along again in 2017 & 2019. It's really one of the premier shows of its type & size. Finally in 2022 I went for fun, and it was honestly part of what motivated me to return to Sand and finish writing the story. There was a hiatus of six years between the first issue and the second, which was then finished the following year in 2023. After all that, I was fully motivated to be accepted on my own, and so here we are!

How was the experience? How does it compare to SPX or other local cons?

TCAF is always a great time. Comics are frequently a solitary experience, so these periodic pilgrimages we undertake to shows like TCAF are a good reminder that we're not alone on this creative journey. 

TCAF is in many ways very similar to SPX, but with some clear advantages. Whether previously when it was located in the Toronto Reference Library or this year at the Mattamy Athletic Centre, TCAF has always been located fairly centrally in Toronto. It is also free to attend. All of which makes it much easier to attend and makes for a very diverse & receptive audience. It is also much more carefully curated, while the SPX lottery feels very arbitrary. I've only ever tabled at SPX thanks to being able to share a space with friends. I've never won the lottery myself, meanwhile it feels like other creators are there every year. 

That said, I live about five minutes away from SPX, so it will always have a special place in my heart. 

 

 

How were your sales? Did you reach a new audience?

Sales were okay. I reached the minimum amount where they didn't feel bad, but I definitely had higher hopes. It was actually somewhat shocking that I did better at Zenkaikon, a smaller anime show in Lancaster, PA. Some of this might have been due to the general uncertainty of the times, or maybe just that I was located at the back of the smaller room, which may have impacted foot traffic. It also did not help that I was in the room that literally had a waterfall spring from the ceiling. My own table was not damaged, but some were, and from what I understand TCAF intends to refund table fees for those individuals. It is worth noting that this was TCAF's first time in a new space, and clearly that came with some growing pains. 

That said, it's always great to engage with a new audience, and see their excitement for your work. One person in particular returned on the second day to buy all of my comics, after buying & reading one the day before. How can that not feel great? 

How did Canadians react to Americans in light of the current administration's misbehavior to our ally?

People were exceptionally friendly. It was actually impressive how little the current administration's misbehavior actually impacted things. There were some remarks for sure, but all in good jest like people mentioning the Trump/Musk breakup. It was also interesting to note that I did have a couple of expats come by my table, and mention that they specifically left the US due to the volatility of the past several years. You hear people joke about that, but I was surprised to see it manifest. 

Lastly, I did attend a baseball game while I was in Toronto (and specifically as a Nats fan enjoyed seeing the Phillies lose to the Blue Jays), but was genuinely surprised at the amount of people genuinely clapping after the American anthem played. I would have expected either a lack of response, or even booing. 

TCAF answers! from Angela Hsieh

by Mike Rhode

A few local cartoonists were selected to attend TCAF in Canada this year - it's a curated show, and not a lottery like SPX is. I think it has invited guests and people who apply to exhibit. I reached out to ask about their experiences. Angela's recent interview is here.

How did you get selected for this show? Did you have to apply?

I applied back in January and was accepted at the end of February. The TCAF application was fairly straightforward: they want your portfolio and your bio, and notably, they're interested in what comics work you'll be debuting the year you apply. I believe I was selected this year because I had a graphic novel come out this year, plus I'd never been to TCAF before.

Was this your first time?

First time at TCAF, not to mention first time in Toronto! I went a few days in advance so that I could explore the city, but I tired myself out even before the con began. Unwise? Perhaps. Regrettable? Not in the least. 

How was the experience? How does it compare to SPX or other local cons?

This was my first international con. I tend to stick with local cons and festivals, so this was by far the furthest I've ever traveled for one—and probably the biggest con I've ever tabled at. Imagine SPX times ten. It's frankly overwhelming how much talent is on display. I wish I had more time to walk around and admire all the incredible work.

How were your sales? Did you reach a new audience?

I did pretty well! But because this was my first TCAF, I have no previous experience to compare to. For what it's worth, I heard some people who exhibited in the past say that sales were slower this year compared to previous years. 

I saw a couple of familiar faces, and I met a whole lot of new people. Plus, I finally got to meet some artists I've been mutuals with for years but have never met in person. Definitely one of the highlights. Another highlight: meeting kids and their parents who'd borrowed Lu and Ren's Guide to Geozoology from the library and stopped by my table to tell me how much they loved reading it. 🥺

How did Canadians react to Americans in light of the current administration's misbehavior to our ally?

With sympathy, when it came up, which it rarely did. People generally assumed I was Canadian, and when they found out I wasn't, the most frequent response was a nod of commiseration before we went back to the thing we showed up for: comics. 

Meet a Local Cartoonist: A brief chat with Cara Gormally

by Mike Rhode

I only recently realized that Cara Gormally is in DC. I reached out to them for an interview. Since we haven't met in person, I'm going to quote from their website for this background information (and use the photo from there as well). 

Cara Gormally (they/them) is a cartoonist, researcher, and professor. Cara’s narrative nonfiction comics remix autobiographical stories with research about socio-scientific issues to make science relatable. Their comics have appeared in the Washington Post, Mutha Magazine, Spiralbound, and other places. Their debut graphic memoir, Everything is Fine, I’ll Just Work Harder, a story about an unexpected healing journey to come home to themself, is forthcoming in April 2025 from Street Noise Books. A second book of braided comic essays about the emotional inheritance of estrangement is underway. 

A professor at Gallaudet University, in Washington, D.C., Cara is fascinated by questions about belonging. Their interdisciplinary research focuses on questions related to making science relevant and accessible to increase students' belonging in STEM. Cara studied philosophy at St. John’s College where they first became fascinated with questions about the ecology of home and belonging. Cara earned a Ph.D. at the University of Georgia. Cara has been honored to receive grants, fellowships, and artist residencies from the National Science Foundation, Playa Residency Fellowship, the American Association of University Women, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, and the Hodson Trust Foundation. 

A DC metro area resident, Cara is an avid morning person, loves nerdy research deep dives, and has more questions than answers. 

What type of comic work or cartooning do you do?

I make narrative nonfiction comics that remix autobiographical stories with research about socio-scientific issues to make science relatable. My debut graphic memoir is coming out April 15, 2025—Everything is Fine, I’ll Just Work Harder.

How do you do it? Traditional pen and ink, computer or a combination?

I am mostly a Procreate-on-my-ipad artist these days. But I do love some pen and ink when I’m drawing just for myself.

Why are you in Washington now?  What neighborhood or area do you live in?

I’m here for my day job—I’m a professor. I live in Maryland, near the DC border.

What is your training and/or education in cartooning?

I’m mostly self-taught. I’ve taken several classes through the Center for CartoonStudies and Sequential Artist Workshop, as well as with some cartoonists directly. I love taking new comic-ing classes and connecting with comics community.

Who are your influences?

Oh, gosh, where to begin. I’d say for my graphic memoir, I had a few #goalbooks in mind: Erin Williams’ Commute; Teresa Wong’s Dear Scarlett; and Tessa Hulls’ Feeding Ghosts.

If you could, what in your career would you do-over or change? Or rather, how are you hoping your career will develop?

If only I could make comics full-time—that’s the dream right? And, I do very enjoy many other parts of my career, so there’s that.

What work are you most proud of?

I’m so delighted and proud of my graphic memoir that is soon-to-be-released. It’s my book baby. So much has gone into making this book. It’s been a labor of love.

What would you like to do or work on in the future?

I’m excited to work on new projects; they’re still evolving, but one involves a kids’ graphic novel. I can’t wait to play with my comics style—I love how style evolves for different needs.

What do you do when you're in a rut or have writer's block?

So much of this is about trusting the process. One of my dear friends reminds me “we never regret rest.” I co-sign that for putting aside comics projects when needed.

What comic books do you read regularly or recommend? Do you have a local store?

I love graphic memoirs. I am big DC library fan and I also deeply love browsing local bookshops. Some of my favorites include Little District Books, Politics and Prose, Big Planet Comics, Busboys & Poets, Solid State, and Kramer’s.

What's your favorite thing about DC?

I’m continually grateful for community here and I love the easy access to the outdoors, even in the city.

Do you have a website or blog?

https://www.caragormally.com/

Instagram @cara_gormally

My zoom book launch is happening on May 12 @7pm EST–sign up here for the zoom link!

Selected Press & Work 

Illustrated interview about Cara Gormally’s creative process | Spiralbound

An interview with Cara Gormally | Autobiographix

Biology professor is drawn to creating comics | Gallaudet Today

Making science more inclusive | Wall Street Journal

Chatting with Matt Madden, Constraint Cartoonist and an SPX Mainstay

 

By Mike Rhode

photo by R. Carter Studios, 2022

Matt Madden is one of the defining indy cartoonists of the early 21st century, and he has been coming to SPX for decades. He has a new book out this year, Six Treasures of the Spiral, so I used that as an opportunity to ask for an interview.

When (within a decade is fine) and where were you born?

I was born in May of 1968 in New York City, in the midst of student riots at Columbia University and in Paris. My mother was finishing her college degree at Columbia but was pretty oblivious to the student activism—she just remembered the riot police being alarmed at a pregnant young woman showing up to class.

Where do you live?

I've been living in Philadelphia since 2016.

What is your training and/or education in cartooning?

I’m entirely self-taught, though I have benefited from advice and resource-sharing with peers and mentors throughout my career. I learned how to draw and tell stories visually by reading a lot of comics, drawing copies of panels I liked, and above all by making comics before I was “ready” and self-publishing them as photocopied minicomics to sell and (mainly) trade with other artists.

What type of comic work or cartooning do you do?

I would say I'm part of the world of indy comics or alternative comics or maybe literary comics. I love doing one-pagers and short stories, strips more rarely, and I do book-length comics even though I'm very slow.   I work on paper and I always have books in mind even if I share a lot of stuff online.

How do you do it? Traditional pen and ink, computer or a combination?

I do a combination. My final pages are India ink on Bristol board using a combination of different nibs and watercolor brushes. Some correction with Deleter white #2. Then I scan and do more clean up in Photoshop.

Increasingly, I use the computer and my iPad to write and plan my comics: I lay out my stories in InDesign using a technique developed by Alison Bechdel and I do a lot of my pencils on my iPad using Procreate, which I then print out and lightbox on to final pencils on Bristol board.

What's your new book about? How does it build on your previous works?

Six Treasures of the Spiral: Comics Formed under Pressure is a collection of short comics I’ve drawn over the last 25 years, all of them made using some kind of formal constraint or conceit: one story uses the letters of the alphabet to generate the art and story; another is a narrative palindrome; some were made by adapting fixed poetry forms like the sestina and the pantoum to the comics page.

These stories weave through my entire career as a cartoonist and show how formal experimentation has been a uniting thread in my work since even before my discovery of the tradition of constrained writing as exemplified Oulipo and Raymond Queneau, which led to my pivotal book, 99 Ways to Tell a Story: Exercises in Style (2005)

You're probably best known as a 'constraint' cartoonist. If I have that term right, can you explain it and how you got into it?

Yes, "constraint" is the term I like to use, and what that means for me is a rule or structure that you impose on yourself as a combination of prompt and creative challenge to create a work of art. We use constraints or limitations all the time when we make art, for example you might decide to make a wordless comic or a comic with the exact same panel grid on every page: how do you tell a good story that makes use of those restrictions? Maybe it's an interesting challenge to try to convey a scene of dialogue in a wordless comic, or to try to create a sense of wide open space in a comic with a 12-panel grid on it. These kinds of constraints are kinds of parameters or guidelines, part of the decision-making and planning of any comic (to stick to one medium—these principles apply across the board, though).

What I like to do is add a weird, often arbitrary constraint on top of whatever pre-existing format constraints there are because I find it forces me to hone my creative problem solving and discover surprising solutions for drawings and stories.

For example, the lead story of my new book is called "Prisoner of Zembla" which was created by making drawings for each panel that evoked the letters of the alphabet, in order, meaning there are 26 panels (plus a title panel for 27 total, which makes for a neat 3-page comic using a 9-panel grid). As I doodled shapes of letters and tried to make them into faces, bodies, and spaces, a story started to suggest itself to me which was about alphabets and language.

The short version of how I got into using constraints is that I owe it all to Raymond Queneau's Exercises in Style, which I adapted into comics between 1998-2004. Drawing the same comics 99 times really sensitized me to how significant and how fun these formal decisions are that we often take for granted. It's been my primary creative focus ever since.

For a longer explanation, I invite you to read the afterword to my new book, "Thinking Inside the Box, or: The Method to My Madden-ness," which you can also read on my Substack: https://mattmadd.substack.com/p/thinking-inside-the-box

Who are your comic art influences?

To stick to comics, here are some major formative influences in no particular order:

    George Herriman

    Winsor McCay

    Hergé

    Julie Doucet

    Carol Swain

    Daniel Clowes

    Muñoz and Sampayo

    Edmond Baudoin

    Gary Panter

    Art Spiegelman

If you could, what in your career would you do-over or change?  

A creative career is always a crapshoot full of would-haves and could-haves so I don’t like to dwell on that stuff too much. The two things I sometimes wish (and which are probably incompatible) are that 1) I had committed to regularly and only producing comics instead of branching out into teaching, editing, making textbooks, etc., and 2) that I had gotten a decent day job early on that would have allowed me to separate the desire to make art from the need to make money.

What work are you best-known for?

That's easy: I will probably always be best known for 99 Ways to Tell a Story: Exercises in Style, my riff on Raymond Queneau's Exercises in Style (1947), where I redrew the same story 99 times using different points of view, different genres, different formal approaches, and so on.

What work are you most proud of?

 These days I feel most proud of my short story "Bridge" (first published as a standalone mini by Kuš and collected in Six Treasures). It is an excellent example of how constraints can draw entirely novel and surprising stories out of you: this comic was created and drawn as a 24-hour comic (24 pages conceived, written, and drawn in 24 hours) with the additional constraint that there had to be a 10-year time gap between each page. Despite that straitjacket of a challenge, I was able to summon up a story which I believe is the best single piece of fiction I have ever created.

I’m also happy with the drawing though I’d like to point out that I completely re-drew the story a few years after the 24-hour version.

What would you like to do or work on in the future?

My kids are in high school and the prospect of being an empty nester is on the horizon. I have several older artist friends whom I’ve seen really thrive with that new freedom and I plan to do the same.

I have two book-length projects that I’m already working on (slowly but surely) and several other projects on deck.

Mostly, I want to keep making comics but as time frees up in the coming years I’d also like to devote more time to playing guitar and making music, doing more translation, and doing drawing or printmaking projects.

What do you do when you're in a rut or have writer's block?

I usually have more than one project going on at a time so if I get stuck or disenchanted with one I’ll switch to the other for a while. Often, by the time I get back to the stuck project after a break I can see it with fresh eyes and find a new way to approach it. The creative process is cyclical and any given work is always in a stage between near-finished and near-ruined.

I don’t really get writer’s block, that’s one of the appeals to me of constraints: if I’m not sure what I want to draw or write about, I can set myself an arbitrary constraint (say: make a one-page comic using only triangles and circles) and that puts me in problem-solving mode rather than worrying about whether I have anything to say.

What do you think will be the future of your field?

Overall I think comics have a great future—creatively, at least. So many new artists are bringing all kinds of new energy to the art form all over the world and the combination of the internet and the ever-growing network of small press-focused comics shows means that it's easier than ever to share your work. Then again, that also makes it harder than ever to get your stuff noticed amidst the tsunami of impressive minicomics, graphic novels, translations, and archival reprints that come out every week, but I think that's a healthy problem for an art form to have.

I'm speaking here about author-driven independent or "art" comics, not necessarily mainstream genre stuff.

Matt at SPX in 2024

What cons do you attend besides The Small Press Expo? Any comments about attending them?

SPX is my main annual con. One addition in recent years has been the Philly Comics Expo (PCX), organized by our amazing local store Partners and Son, which also happens in the fall. The show has a local focus but increasingly brings in out-of-towners like Bubbles Zine or even my tablemate this year, Johnny Damm, who came all the way from California.

I go to MoCCA from time to time and will be there in 2025 but I don't really have a sense of what it's like these days.

I think the vibe of these American indy festivals has evolved over the years to something pretty different from the 90s—which is a good thing. It's a very young scene and much more diverse than it used to be. I admit that I sometimes feel like a bit of an outsider in my own scene as an old grayhair with my books amidst a crowd of risograph zines, t-shirts, and stickers, but I'm happy to see the scene grow and I plan to stick around long enough to see the current youngsters find themselves as befuddled as me in 10-15 years' time.

I was lucky enough to regularly attend the Angoulême Comics Festival four years in a row and again in 2023 and that remains a whole other beast. It's like SDCC if there were no toys or video games (which is to say: it's nothing like SDCC). It's as exciting as everyone says it is, despite its commercialization and the brouhahas that pop up every few years.

You spent time in France as cartoonist invited to live there? How did that come about?

In 2012, my wife Jessica Abel and I were both accepted for residencies at La Maison des Auteurs, a studio residency for cartoonists in Angoulême, France. It's not directly associated with the festival, rather it's part of a whole institution that has grown in parallel called La Cité Internationale de la Bande Dessinée et de l'Image. We initially went for a one-year residency, then renewed for a second year before finally extending to four years total—the maximum allowed!

Our children were two and four when we moved so we dropped them in the local public school and they quickly became fluent French speakers.

It was an incredible experience to be able to live abroad as a family in a country that places value on the arts (and on families: we received a monthly stipend from the French government simply because we had two children, through a quasi-UBI program called La Caisse d'Allocations Familiales). Angoulême is a quiet, even dull, place but it's great for a young family and it is within hours of Paris and Bordeaux or even Bilbao. We were able to travel all over Europe by car and train, often to comics festivals that invited us: Helsinki, Stockholm, Luzerne, Gijón…

You and Jessica Abel are a long-standing married comics couple. Do you talk about work at home? Share projects? Both teach professionally? Have different views on making comics? Have similar ones?

Jessica and I met through the comics scene and the early years of our relationship in particular were steeped in one long conversation about comics. These days it's more of a background part of our everyday lives (I write that even though tonight we are going out to the closing reception for "Philly Comics Now," an amazing exhibit of local artists that features both of our work). Our comics have always been quite different but complementary: my work is very formally experimental but I love a good story and try to populate my comics with well-rounded and interesting characters, whereas her work is very much focused on people and their relationships above all, yet she has a keen feel for the formal aspects of cartooning and uses experimental techniques regularly.

We have only rarely collaborated on creative projects but we have taught side-by-side for years, wrote two textbooks together, and we were also series editors of the Best American Comics for six years. She's a great editor and problem-solver and she's always my first reader on new comics.

What comic books do you read regularly or recommend? Do you have a local store?

My local store is Partners and Son (https://partnersandson.com/ ) and it is not just a shop but a social and cultural hub for the Philly comics community since it opened in 2020. I don't really read any serialized comics (even with indy comics, I'm a wait-for-the-trade kind of guy) but here are a few more-or-less recent releases I would recommend:

    Sunday by Olivier Schrauwen

    Blurry by Dash Shaw

    Unwholesome Love by Charles Burns (a floppy produced by Partners and Son!)

    Processing by Tara Booth

    Cutting Season by Bhanu Pratap

    The Gull Yettin by Joe Kessler

    The Great Beyond by Léa Murawiec

Do you have a website or blog?

I'm mostly concentrating on my new Substack (https://mattmadd.substack.com/ ) these days and I invite all of your readers to subscribe--it's mostly free content and I share a lot of thoughts and resources related to comics and constraints there.

I also maintain my website, mattmadden.com, where you can find information about my books, my comics coaching and other educational work, and other news. It's also an easy way to contact me.

What's your favorite thing about visiting DC?

Unfortunately, I rarely make it down to DC proper during SPX. I have some good friends in Alexandria but we haven't gotten together outside SPX since before the pandemic. I remember a nice trip to Eastern Market…

Matt at SPX in 2023

How has the COVID-19 outbreak affected you, personally and professionally?

I feel pretty lucky about how the pandemic played out for me and my family. No one close to me got dangerously sick and my kids were at an age where they were old enough to take care of themselves at home yet not so old that they were going to stir crazy. Jessica and I were already mostly working at home already and I spent the lockdown year refining my last book, Ex Libris, and eventually pitching it to Tom Kaczynski, who published it in the fall of 2021, just as the lockdown was easing up.

I would say I definitely took a hit professionally as I had pretty regular gigs traveling to schools to give talks and workshops and all of that is basically gone now. On the other hand, I was forced to finally reckon with how to teach and interact using Zoom and that has led to online opportunities—teaching regularly for SAW, offering one-on-one comics coaching to authors—that I might not have pursued otherwise.

All that said, I feel like it's going to be years before we fully absorb the weirdness and trauma of that first year in particular. I remember crossing the Benjamin Franklin Bridge into New Jersey (in search of a loaf of fresh bread!) and not seeing a single other car for most of the ride. My heart was pounding as if I was in 28 Days Later or some other apocalyptic movie…